'People feel Swindon is a place that has been overlooked. We want to change that'
The Big Interview with Council Leader Jim Robbins
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“We want to be judged on what we can deliver for Swindon”
In the second of two long interviews giving an insight into the make-up of Swindon Borough Council, we talk to Council Leader Jim Robbins who is celebrating increasing his Labour Group’s majority at the recent local elections.
Please Note - This interview was carried out on Tuesday. Two days before the General Election announcement.
To read our previous long interview with Swindon Borough Council’s Conservative Group Leader Gary Sumner click here
By Jamie Hill
The council leader’s chamber at Swindon Borough Council is pretty impressive.
On one side of the room is a whole library of leather bound books marked with imposing titles like ‘Law Journal’.
As I was ushered into a seat by council leader Jim Robbins he quipped: “Obviously I’ve read them all. Took me ages though.”
Jim is definitely a man of easy charm but there is also an air of seriousness about him. This is a man who you could easily believe can get things done.
He’s in a jubilant mood especially after the excellent results for his Labour group in the local council elections at the start of May.
“The election was really good. We were really pleased,” He said. “Going into the election we obviously knew Labour were in a good place in the polls but we didn’t think it was going to be the same as 2023. We had been in power for a year and didn’t quite know how people had reacted to that first year.
“We were not expecting to get 14 out of the 20 seats that were up for contention. So I think we were overwhelmed a bit by the result. It feels like a massive vote of confidence from the people of Swindon.”
After they took power in May 2023 the newly installed Labour administration announced three missions that they wanted to achieve.
The wording of them has been slightly updated this year after the council carried out a massive consultation with the people of Swindon in January.
They are -
Build a Better Swindon
Build a Greener Swindon
Build a Fairer Swindon
Jim said: “We have set our three missions and it feels like the organisation has really got behind them.
“The most exciting thing is that at the June Cabinet meeting we will be bringing forward The Swindon Plan which is the three year strategic document on what we are going to do to achieve those missions.
“We know that those missions are big, long term 10 year goals. We know we can’t make a real change to them straight away but the three year plan will have set deliverables that we want to achieve on all of those missions.
“Hopefully that will convince the people of Swindon that we’re moving in the right direction and that there’s some really tangible outcomes that they can hold us to.”
One thing that the council has been praised for since the Labour Group took over as the governing party is its openness and transparency and this is something that Jim feels very strongly about.
He said: “We want people to hold us to account and we want to be as transparent and open as possible for the people of Swindon. I’ve been very clear with officers that when we set those that we needed to set challenging but achievable targets. They need to be costed and they need to be deliverable.
“When we took over I was really concerned that we would have to do a lot to manage people’s expectations to tell people that the financial situation that we inherited was really grim.
“Someone came up to me just after I took over and said ‘congratulations on becoming leader of the council. It’s the worst time in living memory to take on a council’.
“It’s quite sobering when people are saying things like that but I actually think they’re right and that we’ve got to be open with people as to what the situation is.
“Some of my harshest critics are in the Labour Group because for years we’ve been fighting and saying that we can do this better and spend our money in more appropriate areas but the reality is that we haven’t go the money to make the all the changes that we want to make at once.
“So I keep having to go back to The Labour Group and saying that ‘we’ll get to it. Nothing’s off the table. But we just can’t afford to do it all in year one or year two’. It’s delivering that message to the public as well which is important.”
One of the most difficult issues that the relatively new council administration has had to contend with is balancing the budgets.
Jim said: “It’s really difficult. I had a meeting last week that despite taking £24m out of the budget last year, the expectation is that we will have to take £24m out of the budget this financial year too. It’s really hard to do that without having an impact on frontline services.
“I was at the Labour Local Government Conference not too long ago and the front bench team were there from the Labour Party and they were saying that they would do what they can but that they’re in a similar situation to us.
“If they win they will be taking over an economy that isn’t in a great state and a country that has public services crying out for help. They want to make changes but they can’t necessarily afford to do them straight away.
“The message has come out from Labour that people shouldn’t expect to go back to 2010 levels of funding. The taps aren’t going to magically open and that we all go back to the budgets that we used to have.
“But they will try and get additional money for councils. The Labour Front Bench have also said that they’ll try to move us to a three year funding settlement rather than a one year settlement which will give us a lot more stability and make it easier for us to invest in things.”
According to Jim, 83% of the budget this year is going on Children’s and Adult Services so that only leaves 17% left to spend on other things like the potholes, investing in the town centre and emptying the bins.
Jim said: “We have to be clever. There aren’t things we can do on our own so we have to meet and work with other people and organisations to try and make things happen.”
Jim, who actually has a politics degree, was first elected in 2012 and became leader of the Labour Group in May 2022 after his predecessor Jim Grant stood aside and council leader the year after. As his day job he works for the research council based in Polaris House on the funding assurance team. He has now gone part time to fit his council leader role around work.
Jim said: “It’s amazing the difference that there is from being in opposition to being in charge. All of a sudden you take the brunt of people’s anger.
“There’s some really big issues that mean a lot to Swindonians. But the biggest is definitely the town centre.”
“There’s a general feeling that the town centre isn’t the town centre that people can be proud of and then you’ve got a number of buildings around the town that are closed and derelict that people feel very strongly about,” Jim said.
“There’s a feeling that the development that has happened in other places has passed Swindon by and we’re determined to change that.
“We’re determined to update the town centre and I think that the work that we’re doing at the moment is to try and really get into what is it that a town the size of Swindon needs. What is the right mix of leisure, retail, residential and office space in the town centre?
“We know that world of work has changed. More people are working from home so that has had an impact on the centre. But we also know that people are less happy about working in big out of town office developments. They’d rather be in the town centre when they can be. So we are trying to bring that all together.”
The council has started working with a London-based architecture and urban planning firm called Allies and Morrison, who did the refurbishment of Kings Cross in London.
Jim said: “Ten years ago, maybe more, they did some work in Swindon and it never really came to anything and they were quite disappointed that the plan they put forward at the time for Swindon didn’t work.
“So they’ve approached us again. They’ve given us a deal where they wouldn’t charge us the normal amount as they felt they had some unfinished business in Swindon. So we’re really keen to work with them to try and update some of the ideas that they’ve had. Work out why they didn’t happen but also update the plans for the post-pandemic world with different working practices and different retail practices.
“We know that people shop online now so retail won’t be the same. We know that we have got the Outlet Village close to the town centre which is hugely successful and something Swindonians should be proud of, but it does have an impact on the town centre.
“So we need to reimagine the town centre.”
One issue that Jim is keen to address is the lack of a night-time economy in the town centre.
He said: “I’ve been really struck that whenever I go into the town centre in the evening the place is dead. The only places that are open after 5pm are Taco Bell and McDonalds and they’re mainly open so Uber Eats or Deliveroo can do their business. It’s not a vibrant place in the evening.
“How can we change that? And how can we do it in a way that doesn’t take away from the success of Old Town - a place where people enjoy going out.
“It’s about trying to get all of those different issues balanced and come up with a plan for the town centre that really works.”
Part of the problem in regenerating the town centre is that huge swathes of the area are owned by private landlords.
He said: “We do own some bits of the town centre and it’s up to us to come up with coherent plans and a compelling vision for the rest of the town that we can either convince people and investors to buy into.
“We want to have some kind of plan sometime this year that we can take out to people and say this is what we’re looking at and get their feedback on it and then it’s obviously a bit of a longer process to try and get some of that investment and make a difference.
“We’re very conscious as an administration that we’ve got two years now before a big set of elections and we’re really keen to make sure that we’ve got some kind of delivery to show by that time so that people can see that we’re serious and can see that we’re working on this and can see that Swindon is changing for the better.
“I get why people might be cynical and I think people are totally right to treat ideas that come out of the council with a healthy degree of scepticism because there’s been so many broken promises in the past.
“We’re not expecting people to come out and just say ‘this is going to be totally different as Labour is in charge’. They’re going to treat anything with a bit of cynicism and it’s our job to convince people that the council has changed and that we are able to deliver.”
One success for the council already has been the Swindon Museum and Art Gallery moving to the Civic Offices which will be opening its doors in July.
And slightly more contentiously but another feather in the cap is their announcement that they’ve signed a deal with landlords SevenCapital to get The Oasis Leisure Centre reopened who are now working hard to come to an agreement with potential operators.
Jim said: “We signed a deal with SevenCapital for The Oasis during the pre-election period that couldn’t be announced until after the local election.
“The bit that is really important to us is that the slides are protected, the wave machine is protected and the dome is protected. There will be some kind of dry side of the leisure centre and that’s the bit that SevenCapital and the operators are still negotiating about at the moment.
“One thing we’re pleased about is that there’s a 10-year keep-open clause because that gives the protection that we want to see.
“The other bit that’s been built into the deal that is really exciting is that we get the opportunity to buy the building back at its market value and not the refurb value and it’s going to cost significantly more to refurb than the building will be worth at the end of the process.
“My take on the sports hall that Save Oasis Swindon is campaigning for is that if we can deliver a sports hall that would be great.
“We would welcome it if we can but I’m really conscious that The Link Centre don’t use their sports hall as a sports hall any more. It was there for years as a sports hall but they took the decision to turn it into a trampoline centre because they saw that that would be a better way of them making guaranteed income from it.
“We’ve also got sports centres at other leisure centres around the town and they’re not fully booked out so if the operators can make it work at The Oasis that would be great but we’ll have to wait and see.”
Jim believes Swindon can do better though than having a sports hall at The Oasis as one of the town’s key concert venues.
He said: “I’ve seen some great concerts there and I really understand why people who went to their first concerts at The Oasis are bound to look on those events with nostalgia and fondness.
“I’m sure they would have had a great night but I would also say that the actual experience of going to The Oasis for a concert wasn’t the best. You queued up outside with a load of people in their swimming costumes in a neighbouring queue and you could only get a warm can of beer from a trestle table at the back rather than a proper bar. It was not a premium going out experience.
“I’m confident that we can deliver a better experience elsewhere in the borough and the thing that is really important to us is getting the right capacity that allows us to get into the right level of bands and performers coming to the town. 1200 capacity is the magic figure that we’re looking at and we are actively investigating locations where we can put a 1200 capacity venue.
“We’re all about delivery and getting things done so one of the sites we are looking at for that venue is part of Kimmerfields but not in the previously-mooted Cultural Quarter aspect.
“I think we’re just trying to look at what is the best way that we can use the bits of land we own in the town centre to try and kickstart the most amount of private investment to make the town centre what it needs to be. That’s our driving force on this. We’re not particularly concerned with setting up particular quarters and stuff like that. It’s about getting stuff done and making sure that we can deliver.
“The Wyvern Theatre has a couple of years to go on its current deal with operators Trafalgar. We’re all very conscious that the Wyvern building is coming to the end of its life-span. There’s issues with concrete cancer and stuff like that so there are a couple of options for it.
“There are some organisations currently who think they can save The Wyvern as it is and we’re really interested in talking to them.
“In an ideal world we would want to keep The Wyvern open so that it gives us another venue in town so we have got the Arts Centre with its 100-150 capacity and The Wyvern which is about 500-600 and then a bigger venue like we’ve just spoken about with 1200 capacity
“We are really interested in talking to people about community uses for The Wyvern and making sure that the vibrant arts scene that there is in the town can use it as easily as possible.
“We would also like to see some regeneration around that area to support The Wyvern and support some of the neighbouring businesses. There’s stuff you can do with The Central Library and The Town Hall and The Wyvern, bringing in a bit of regeneration to that area and making it feel a bit nicer and a bit more loved. The Wyvern is one of those areas that we own so it’s up to us to get a plan in place there and that would encourage others to want to invest in the rest of the town.”
Another big bugbear in the town is the abandoned Mechanics’ Institute in the Railway Village. Once the thriving heart of Swindon but now reduced to an empty abandoned husk for more than 30 years.
Jim said: “The Mechanics’ is still owned by Matthew Singh. We’ve had talks with him. They were positive and we are trying to continue those at the moment.
“We would love to come to an arrangement with him that allows us to take ownership of the building because we know that we would then be able to access support from Historic England and the Heritage Lottery Fund as we think that is the best way for us to move forward.
“It’s a longer term thing for us but I’m hoping that we will be able to do a deal soon with Historic England to get some support from them and then we can look at some serious options as to what we can do with the Mechanics’.
“I’ve got some ideas of what we should do with it but I think it’s really important that we do a proper process with the residents of Swindon to make sure they feed into it.”
One of the first problems facing the Labour Group late last year and early this year was the introduction of the biggest changes to waste and recycling collections in Swindon for 15 years.
What followed was chaos with collections falling behind and the system buckling under the increased amount of waste generated over the Christmas period.
Jim said: “I am certainly not getting anywhere near the amount of phone calls and emails I was getting in January concerning waste and recycling. I think the Cabinet Member, Chris Watts, is in a similar position but there’s certainly lessons that have been learnt and there is work that is going on at the moment on how we deal with the Christmas rise in refuse and recycling.
“The real positive is that the amount of waste going into landfill has been massively reduced and recycling rates have gone up because of the new system.
“We want to significantly exceed the 40% target of diverting waste away from landfill and we’re still doing some number crunching as to where we actually are. It varies quite a lot still on the figures and we’re trying to get some baseline data as to what we are doing with the system and we’re going to set ourselves some targets based off that. You might see that as part of the Swindon Plan.”
Another issue that faced the newly installed Labour administration last year was Children’s Services especially after an Ofsted inspection labelling the department as inadequate.
Jim said: “Ofsted are in this week doing more monitoring visits on Children’s Services. We had the first of those in January. That went well. We are really pleased that they could see some real improvements in the service.
“At the moment they are looking at the family safeguarding model that we’ve got. We’re determined to make sure that we improve as quickly as we can. We’ve started a children’s improvement board and we will do everything we can to make sure that we carry on that journey and get us back to being a good service that keeps children safe and secure.
“We’re on target to be able to do that on the timescales that are being expected from us but there’s still a lot of work that needs to be done to really improve the service.”
Other problems facing the council that The Ink has written a series of articles on is the town’s SEND (Special Educational Needs and Disabilities) provision which is under-resourced causing huge problems for children and parents across Swindon.
“The SEND system across the country doesn’t really work,” Jim said. “It’s one of those public service sectors that is currently in crisis. We’re working closely with the Department of Education and are trying to get the best level of service we can with the funding that we have.
“There isn’t enough funding and I really empathise with people with children who have been caught up in this as I don’t think the level of service that those children are getting is good enough at the moment.
“We are doing everything we can within the budgetary constraints that we have to try and make the system work but there is a lot more we can do if we had the money for it.”
In February the council announced that they would be spending £22.43m over the next four years to create 66 new places at four existing schools as well as build a brand-new special school. The extra spaces in the primary schools will be available in September 2024 and 2025.
The new special school will have space for 100 children and will be built to expand the current provision for children with SEND still further and is expected to be ready by 2028.
They also announced a new early start centre in Penhill for children who have SEND requirements.
Jim said: “Despite all of that, I’m worried that even with that provision in place it will be oversubscribed and it will be difficult for us to support everyone to the level that we would like to and that is part of the challenges we have with part of our ‘Build a Fairer’ Swindon mission that we have set ourselves.
“We’re desperate to do it. We know it’s the right thing to do but it’s really hard to be able to do it when we’re working on such limited funds and when we’re having to take even more money out of the system every year it just makes it even more difficult.”
The housing crisis is also a massive issue which affects Swindon with there being simply not enough homes being built and especially not enough affordable homes.
In March the council announced a new masterplan for the Marlowe Avenue area would see up to 1,100 homes built over the next decade – with between 400 and 450 affordable properties forming part of the scheme.
“Housing is a massive part of what we want to deliver so I think the Marlowe Avenue project is a step in the right direction,” Jim said. “We’re really excited that it’s one of the projects that fulfils all three of our missions in that we can build better houses, we can build houses that work for the most needy in society and we can make sure that those houses are as energy efficient as possible so that they are working for residents who live in them as they are generating their own power in low carbon houses. It’s a really exciting project. Watch this space as you will see more of developments like this to come.
“As a town we have a lot more houses to build at Wichelstowe as part of the joint venture. We’ve got the new Eastern Villages development and we think we can deliver, as part of our town centre regeneration, a number of affordable houses in the town centre that are much better quality than some of the houses that are being delivered in the town centre at the moment.
“There’s lots of very lowest common denominator office to houses conversions that are being done under permitted development that are not the sort of regeneration quality that we want to see in the town centre so we’re determined to get in there.
“We are actively looking to disrupt the town centre market by putting much better quality affordable housing in and we think that’s the thing that will help drive up the quality of the rest of the town centre.
“It’s also about trying to make it so that it’s an economic no-brainer to bring an empty home back into use by improving the quality of housing in the town centre and increasing land values in the town centre. I believe that’s the thing that will bring those houses back into use as it simply becomes idiocy not to do it for a landlord of an empty home. We can’t get involved in that directly but we have to create a market that leaves no reason to leave a house empty in Swindon.
“We’re trying to create a town centre that reverses that trend of doughnutification of Swindon that brings a real heart back into the town centre but also delivers a more vibrant more outgoing place.
“The other thing that we need to do and it’s also part of that ‘Build a Better Swindon’ mission is over time we need to understand what are the right facilities for a town our size.”
Jim is very positive about the future of Swindon and believes it is really well placed to live up to its potential in the next decade or so.
He said: “You’ll see over the next few months a couple of things that will really put Swindon on the map.
“The Panattoni development on the old Honda site is the biggest employment land site in the south of England and they’re getting close to the point where they will be announcing some of the people that will be investing in there. That will be a big driver for Swindon.
“We’re also determined to take advantage of the electrification of the mainline and the easy transport links into London and I think there’s a real opportunity for us to say to people that Swindon is changing. We’re investing in it. We’re determined to build a town centre that people can be proud of but let’s think about what Swindon has already got. It’s a nice place to live. People who come to Swindon tend to stay here.
“There’s a lot going for it already. If we can get that message out to people in London and say ‘hold on, why are you paying London prices for your housing?’
“With the electrification you can be in London within 49 minutes on a direct train. Swindon is really well placed. You’ll be paying a lot less than London prices and at the weekend you’ve got the benefit of the Cotswolds and Wiltshire and all these lovely places on your doorstep. There’s a real quality of life as well as value for money reason to living in Swindon. And that’s the message we want to get out.
“I love Swindon. It’s the people that make it great. I moved to Swindon 20 years ago. It’s just been a place that got to me straight away. I just really felt at home here. I’ve loved living here. It’s been a great place to bring up my family and they made me leader of the council so I can’t really complain.
“It is really well connected for the rest of the country. Although there is definitely a sense around the town centre that we haven’t had the same investment as some of our neighbours I do think there’s a real opportunity especially for businesses to say that Swindon is open for everyone.
“If you look at some of our competitors like the Oxfords and Baths, there’s a very sort of NIMBY attitude around them and we want to generate the opposite in Swindon. A YIMBY attitude. Yes, we want you to come here. Yes. We want to welcome you in. Yes. We want you to come and invest here and yes, we want to find ways to work with you to make it a great place to be.
“If you look at some of the underlying data around Swindon the productivity rate here is much higher than Oxford, Bath, Bristol, Milton Keynes, Reading. We are really well positioned in terms of productivity.
“In terms of house values we are the most affordable area to live on the whole Thames Valley corridor.
“There is loads going for Swindon and that’s why loads of people choose to come here and that’s why they stay.
“And if we can get the town centre and the other bits right then I think it can be a town that people can be really proud of.”
The Swindon Link Magazine Archive
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